Freemasons

Thank you for that information Gary... I will take a look. I think that there is little question that the medieval craft guilds have played a part in the development of what is now modern Freemasonry, but just how much of a part is the question for me. Were they the originators of the philosophy and teachings with which it inculcates its members? I'm not convinced that they were... Were they instrumental in passing on teachings formulated prior to their establishment? I think this is more likely... but just how far back into antiquity they originate is something I would love to know for sure! Alas, answers to questions like this do not present themselves when requested!... some day it may become known for certain and I hope to be there when it does... for now, we really only have speculation reasonably argued with the evidence to hand.

What other hypotheses have people read? Which do you find most convincing and why?

Best regards

Lux,

Interesting and all as this is, I suspect you may not be asking the right questions.

It seems to me that much more important than the origins of Freemasonry are the reason why we are members of the fraternity.

To be sure, the origins give us some idea of how and why the philosophies emerged. But that doesn't explain why we join, and more importantly, why we stay. And, equally importantly, can we encourage you to take the next step?

Is it an answer to this sort of question you seek?

Fraternally,

Gary

_________________
Gary Kerkin
PG Lec (GLNZ)
PG Lec (SGRACNZ)
PM Waikato Lodge of Research No 445
PSR Three Arrows Research Conclave No 30

Hi Gary...

You are correct in that I am interested in hearing from Masons about why they chose to join the organisation... and perhaps more importantly why you have chosen to *stay* involved with it. I have checked the 'What's it to me?' topic under 'Enquiring Minds' in this forum and will read any additions made to it. I do like to keep to topic though on message boards though, so will restrict my comments focussed on Masonic origins here.

For me, the origins are important for two reasons... the first being that I have developed a fascination with it as a result of the fact that it appears to be interconnected with other areas of interest to me e.g. ancient mystics, cultures, their use of geometry and astronomy, philosophy etc. The second reason is that for me in assessing whether or not I would be interested in making active enquiries into membership of your fraternity, I desire an understanding of its history and how it has developed to its present point. I seek to know what is important in Freemasonry - and WHY things have had importance placed on them - the study of its history assists me in this endeavour.

With regard to your previous post, the admission of speculative Masons at that early stage has been likened to a reasonably common practice of admitting people to guilds of which they were not members ~ but notable (or indeed noble) patrons. The wife/daughter/niece of a noble who spent a lot of money with the Weavers for instance may have been made an honorary member (I forget the term now I'm sorry) of the Weavers Guild. So... while men of substance and influence may have been admitted to Masonic Lodges, does this in itself suggest or indicate anything special? From your research, what significance with respect to Masonic ritual/philosophy etc does admitting 'outsiders' have? What are we to make of it?

Lux,

I'm not sure what the import of admitting "persons of substance" may have been (remember I said that the WHY of history is much more difficult to determine than the WHAT), but it is quite possible that as the Guilds or Lodges came increasingly under attack (not the least reason of which were endeavours to control how much they charged for their services) they may have thought it advantageous to try to gain "friends at court" as it were. We can speculate until the cows come home.

As I indicated, one of my reasons for not granting too much substance to theories of the origins of modern Freemasonry being vested in the Craft Guilds was that the medieval craftsmen would not have had sufficient time to devote to developing the philosophies on which Freemasonry depends. The development of such philosophies is only available to a class of people who have leisure to devote to thinking. The craftsman and labourers of the middle ages were too occupied ensuring they were fed, clothed and housed to think about anything else.

What is reasonably certain, though, is that modern Freemasonry was established, or at least populated, by the same group of people in Britain who founded the Royal Society and they certainly had the time. I often speculate as to whether they weren't seeking to step outside the strictures of the established churches of the time and that possibly the "free" in Freemasonry comes from "free thinking".

As to your question about what the admittance of "outsiders" means with respect to Masonic ritual/philosophy, I don't know. Except, of course, the question presupposes that the Lodges to which we are referring had anything like "ritual", at least, as we know it today. My guess is that there is a huge intellectual jump from the Lodges of the 17th Century to Anderson's dissertation in the 18th Century.

I doubt this gets you very much further ahead, but it is fun, isn't it?

_________________
Gary Kerkin
PG Lec (GLNZ)
PG Lec (SGRACNZ)
PM Waikato Lodge of Research No 445
PSR Three Arrows Research Conclave No 30

Maybe I'm wrong (I'm always saying that aren't I?) but it seems to me that Lux is trying to find out everything about freemasonry that those of us members have been in the process of assimilating since we joined, before he decides whether to join or not.
I think that in that case, he will not succeed as a lot cannot be learned from "outside", you need to be part of it to get the "real" meaning don't you. There's a lot you can't get from the "words" alone, you need the ambience (for want of a better word) of the company and friendship of like minded men. Then it's like osmosis.
What do you think

_________________
Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445

I'm with you on this, reading alone cannot give you the information needed the involvement is part of a learning curve and gives you the 'full picture'
Lux - you may consider joining, it sounds like you would make excellent company among Masons

_________________
Hadyn Nicholls PM
Homewood Lodge 447
Recruitment & Publicity Officer
http://www.homewood-lodge.net.nz
Wellington District Education Officer

While related to and will doubtless have an impact on my decision whether or not to enquire about becoming a mason, it is not the sole inspiration for my interest in your fraternity. So, to an extent Keith is correct in saying that I would like to know more before deciding whether or not to become a mason. However, I am also genuinely interested in philosophy, points of history as a whole, along with how society has developed... it appears to me that freemasonry is interconnected with so much of our history AND our modern development... and that is the main reason for my interest. It was only after pursuing this interest and the discoveries I have made since that the idea of joining the fraternity became something I felt I could consider. And so, I am not trying to find out 'everything' before joining... but I am becoming more and more comfortable with the idea, with the more I discover and the more exchanges I have with masons.

I am furthermore acutely aware that I will never have anything more than a theoretical paper knowledge without experiencing the Craft for myself... as you say Haydn, involvement is part of the learning curve and only part of the picture is available from the outside. If I were to receive a welcome into a Lodge similar to that which I have received here, I would be very happy

Gary, the involvement of freemasons in the establishment of the Royal Society appears to be fairly well documented... and I was surprised (although I probably shouldn't have been!) to read about Sir Christopher Wren's masonic involvement, although I understand that this was downplayed to some extent. The idea of the "free" in freemasonry coming from "free thinking" outside, as you say, the strictures of the established churches is a possibility. If you couple this with some of the ancient charges that seem to suggest aiding brother masons in protecting their lives and their property when at considerable risk and the possible to link of this to heresy - that possibility becomes very real indeed, doesn't it?

[quote="Lux"]If you couple this with some of the ancient charges that seem to suggest aiding brother masons in protecting their lives and their property when at considerable risk and the possible to link of this to heresy - that possibility becomes very real indeed, doesn't it?[/quote]

It is at least plausible. However it may be as simple as merely wishing to cast off the shackles of the conventional religious wisdom of the time. If you have extended your studies into the other orders of Freemasonry (not just the Craft) you will be aware that there is trend back towards Christianity, probably most strongly expressed in the Rose Croix. This suggests to me a desire to hold on to beliefs while removing the strictures of established doctrine. Speculation on my part, of course.

_________________
Gary Kerkin
PG Lec (GLNZ)
PG Lec (SGRACNZ)
PM Waikato Lodge of Research No 445
PSR Three Arrows Research Conclave No 30

I think you may be right there Gary in it being as simple as their wishing to "cast off the shackles of conventional religious wisdom"... but then even that was seen as heresy in those days. Things that you and I would see as a relatively minor break from the rules of the church were major issues then. Joan of Arc was burnt at the stake for something as simple as wearing men's clothes... termed as a 'relapsed heretic' for which one could be put to death after she apparently promised (debatable for sure) not to wear those clothes, and then did so again defiantly.

The Rose Croix really interests me and there does appear to be more of a move back towards Christianity expressed - more so it seems here in NZ than anywhere else in the world. Prior to the establishment of the first Supreme Council, King Frederick II of Prussia (the symbol of whose Royal House is the double-headed eagle which serves as the symbol of the order also, despite many evangelical interpretations of something far more sinister) was the Supreme Governor of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite... he had to approve all resolutions passed by the Consistory of Sublime Princes of the Royal Secret. To be sure that this form of governance continued after his death, he instituted the first Supreme Council and the thirty-third degree of Sovereign Grand Inspector General. Originally, the council was to consist of nine men, a minimum of five of whom would have to profess the Christian religion. This shows a clear emphasis in this direction. Emphasis yes, requirement no. As I understand it, here in NZ, the Rose Croix is even more Christian than the Scottish Rite worked overseas... is this right? I'm not sure - is being a Christian a requirement in NZ of being admitted as a Rose Croix mason? I do know that the candidate for initiation is taken from the 4th - 18th degree in one ceremony on being accepted in NZ - to the degree of Knight Rose Croix which is perhaps the most Christian of the Scottish Rite degrees?

I think your speculation makes sense... people wanting to worship in the way they see fit that did not necessarily square with the Christian orthodoxy... holding onto beliefs without subscribing to the strict rules set down by the institution. Perhaps the same could be said of the abberations of masonry that have established themselves.

It's all so fascinating and exciting, isn't it?!

Lux, to be admitted to the Rose Croix in NZ a candidate has to express a belief in the Trinity. I guess that is as Christian as it gets. He also has to be Craft Mason.

It is fascinating. Is it exciting? I don't know. Participation offers me great satisfaction, and some aspects I do find exhilirating. But it is not all excitement. Some of it is hard work and time consuming. But I guess that is my choice, and it is one I am happy to make.

_________________
Gary Kerkin
PG Lec (GLNZ)
PG Lec (SGRACNZ)
PM Waikato Lodge of Research No 445
PSR Three Arrows Research Conclave No 30

Wow... thank you for that info re the Rose Croix in NZ and the requirement to express a belief in the Trinity. I thought it sounded as though there was more of a Christian emphasis than in the traditional Scottish Rite, and it appears that is correct. Does anyone know why NZ chose to emphasise Christianity more and take the name 'Rose Croix' instead of 'Scottish Rite'? Also, are there any traditional Scottish Rite lodges operating in NZ anymore (i.e. those whose governing authority is the Supreme Council in the UK)?

I really do find discovering things to be exciting!... Not all the time as you say, sometimes it can be a bit of a slog and certainly time consuming, but the excitement of learning is worth it, in my view

Just to join the thread & maybe divert a little...
I think masonry has agreat deal to be learnt from a historical perspective as in dates & facts & conjecture (eg the origins before 1717 - are we decended from mystic plays, knights templar. peseants revoult, stone masons, Royal Order or all the above?)
But the true vaule of masonry is the intensely personal journey that it takes you on. It is a personal journey of growth and development of old fashioned "christian" values; it is also a modern "rite of passage"; and contains myths with hidden meanings - something that is very much needed & lacking in todays western society - witness the success of the "Lord of the Rings" - it answers an inner need. It teaches us how to be a man in a modern world; as well as creating a sense of community in an increasingly "user pays" society.
To me that is its inner strength & the genuine secrets of a master mason.
Good luck with the journey.

Thanks Phil, thats a useful way to express it. We do have a problem, don't we? We tend to pussyfoot around without getting to the nitty-gritty. I guess that is because, as you put it, it is an "intensely personal journey."

This is probably what Lux has been waiting for someone to express, although I don't know if it sufficient for him (her?).

When I was preparing my inaugural address for my installation as Master of the Waikato Lodge of Research, I hunted high and low for quotations and thoughts that would express what I felt and what I hoped to achieve during my term. This is not an easy task given the almost spiritual element that pervades the philosophy of Freemasonry, and to which you refer. I found a quotation from Kant which, for me, almost perfectly encapsulated my feelings:

"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe, the more often and the more seriously reflection concentrates up them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."
Immanuel Kant: Critique of Practical Reason

You and I both know that there is nothing we can do about the starry heavens above us (other than look in wonder and awe) but we can do something about the moral law within us. For me, that is what your "personal journey of growth and development" is achieving.

As you suggest, perhaps it is creating a bastion of community and caring in our increasingly pragmatic and selfish society. I like to think so.

_________________
Gary Kerkin
PG Lec (GLNZ)
PG Lec (SGRACNZ)
PM Waikato Lodge of Research No 445
PSR Three Arrows Research Conclave No 30

Indeed.
To me the delving into the history of freemasonry is an interesting and ever increasing area of interest; but it is a diversion & not the marrow of masonry.
The real lessons of masonry are those learnt by the individual and are peculiar to that individual - Kant's "moral law within me".
One strength that masonry has in comparison to organised religion is that it contains no dogma as to the moral and spiritual beliefs; a downside of which is that the moral lessons are of necessity personal to the individual. Therefore what moral lessons I learn will be different than the next masons - my personal journy has me at a different place compared to the next - neither is right or wrong, just at a different stage.
I truly believe that masonry is a shining becon for those with eyes to see & ears to hear; did I not believe it I wouldn't be a mason.

On another vein - could you please supply me with contact details for the Waikato Research lodge? The research lodges have a wealth of information to contribute to the daily advancement of masonic knowledge...

Hi Phil,
I am Secretary of The Waikato Lodge of Research
You can email me, or write to me at
P O Box 319
Taupo
Phone me on 07-3770572 (But my son Cameron is on the Net a lot of the time so it can be difficult to get through on that line) or on my mobile, 025-2855719

_________________
Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445