Freemasons

hello craig mctavish here . I am seeking some information on two of my ancestors who were reprtedly leaders/grandmasters in thenth american freemasons.
First was simon mctavish(mactavish) born scotland 1750 . He was the founder of the hudson bay fur co and the nth west fur co in montreal canada . He was reputed to have been "head" of the nth american freemasons up to his death in 1804 at which time he was also reported to be the wealthiest man in canada.
Secondly was his nephew simon macgillivary also born scotland , who also became grand master of nth american freemasons around 1820. This simon macgillivray was instructed to be tutor and custodian for simon mactavish children and heirs.
Probably important to also note that all simon mactavish children are buried in a special vault beneath the floor of the chiswick parish church in london. Simons children returned to london after his death 1804 in order to be educated etc.
Any help in confirming my families position within the freemasons would be appreciated . Thank you. craig mctavish

for what its worth , the mactavish clan at dunardry scotland also are reputed by legend to have harboured and settled a group of templar knights circa 1300 . the churchyard at kilmartin (mactavish kirk and graveyard) has around 70 graves reported to be pos attached to templars but this fact still in hot dispute from all quarters.
The gravestones are adorned with large swords and this is proof of great warrior status.
Could it be that simon mactavish attachment to the freemasons in 1800 had something to do with his clans legends of the templar knights being welcomed onto mactavish lands in 1300s.?
Any ideas and suggestions greatly welcomed . thank you .craig mctavish

Hi Craig,

i'm sorry but this is going to be a disappointing answer for you.

There has never been an organisation of North American Freemasonry.

Freemasonry first arrived in America with the Britsh Army and the Lodges were initially organised as Provincial Grand Lodges under the authority of the British Grand Lodges (England, Ireland and Scotland).

As Freemasonry grew these Provincial Grand Lodges started to transform into Grand Lodges, one in each State and each independent of the other with their own Grand Masters.

After the War of Independence British GLs cut their ties with them and they became fully autonomous.

The best that you can hope for is that your ancestor was a Grand Master of one of them. The way to find out is to google the Grand Lodge of the State in which he lived and cotact them. They all have lists of the Past GMs.

And sorry but any Templar legends are very unlikely to hae been useful to them either.

Mike

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My Lodge Website, Mersey Lodge

thank you so much for the reply. I already have some information on hand regarding simon macgillivary and would have thought yourself would have access to this also.
Simon macgillivray was apointed "grand master of the second provincial lodge of Upper Canada from 1822 until 1840 " ( from the history of freemasonary in canada 2 vols toronto 1899 by j.s rpbertson.
He,s also referred to as being PGM "an experienced mason"
What i am after is someone within the freemasons who actually has a keen interest in its very history .
Simon Mactavish is said to have also been head of "nth american" or upper canada freemasons .
I would appreciate any note of him on your organisations records.

###.also note that simons childrens tomb is descrided as " an elegant marble monument with a pyramid and a female figure reclining on 3 coffins under a weeping willow tree"

##also note that simon mactavish owned montreals most prized limestone quarry. One of simons mansions on mt royal in montreal was built from the very best stones from this quarry.

##..also note that simon also built yet another mansion on the banks of a canadian lake and titled this mansion interestingly enough as "CHISWICK HOUSE" .

all of the above mentioned items need to be explained . The fact Simons trustees sent all his children and heirs back to london and settled them near chiswick house london is again a very interesting fact.
Simon Macgillivray mentioned above being elected to be guardian and custodian and tutor for simons children is also very interesting.

Chiswick house in London has been suggested to have some connection to freemasons which as usual is being hotly debated and denied . With the above facts put into position of time and location it appears my ancestors placed a very definite real connetion to chiswick house and it MUST have had real relevance to their freemasonary.

Neither of these men were fools , with money nor fact .

maybe if my request was made more straight foward ...
maybe to state that i wished to apply to be a 'freemason" ..and the grounds for my application were that 2 of my ancestors were awarded and respected by the most titled position of "grand master" then perhaps your access to my families attachment to freemasons would become so much more accessable by your staff.?
so please treat this as a request for freemason apln on the grounds i have historic family connection to freemasons....
under these circumstances im sure the detail i am questioning will now be at your fingertips..
you will immediatley have proof i am blood of your grandmaster or not...
with respect of an honest answer from a bloodline of your historic freemasons grandmasters direct ...

Excellent news, however as I've tried to illustrate particular Grand Masters in the US would be of no interest to me, being in England.

Ah, so not in America at all but Canada. Although things are not so different there with several Grand Lodges.

A PGM is a Provincial Grand Master this is not the same thing as a Grand Master but is pretty high up in his Province: Here's some detail: http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belan ... Canada.htm

I have a pretty keen interest but there have been several hundred Grand Lodges (with several thousand Grand Masters and that's not even counting Provincial Grand Lodges) with numerous splits and schisms over our 300 year history.

He cannot have been both as they're two different countries, I would stick with what we know that he was a Provincial Grand Master of Upper Canada.

I think you may be reading too much into things. There are hundreds of Pubs and Church Halls in England that have also been used as Masonic Temples.
Mike

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My Lodge Website, Mersey Lodge

Excellent

Cool, are you 21 or over, of sound morals and do you believe in God?

If yes, we need to know where you are so as to give you contact details of the relevant Grand Lodge.

You're not going all "Homer the Great" on me are you??
You do not need any prior attachment to Freemasonry to become a Freemason.

Very irrelevant I'm afraid.

Again although all very nice but totally not needed.

Highly unlikely! My Grand Master is HRH the Duke of Kent.

Mike

_________________
My Lodge Website, Mersey Lodge

_________________
My Lodge Website, Mersey Lodge

You've made some good arguments, but I'm sure there are people who will disagree with some points.

And this is a New Zealand website, you might get more information from someone in Canada although, as you see, there are people here from England as well as NZ

You might find some of these sites helpful

Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon (has a lot of historical documents)
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/sitemap.html

Pietre-Stones Review of Freemasonry (one of the best and most comprehensive sites around)
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/

Masonic Information (an American site, very factual and interesting)
http://www.masonicinfo.com/

“A Page About Freemasonry” (an American site, worth a browse)
http://mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/

Phoenix Masonry: a whole library of Masonic books available, many however are American and not really relevant to NZ Freemasonry
www.phoenixmasonry.org/

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Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445