Freemasons

Without going into too much depth, can anyone give me an outline of this?

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Hadyn Nicholls PM
Homewood Lodge 447
Recruitment & Publicity Officer
http://www.homewood-lodge.net.nz
Wellington District Education Officer

Rose Croix is a christian degree originating form America/France/Germany - has a fascinating history. It consists of very beautiful ritual. There are 18 degrees (the first 3 being taken as EA, FC & MM equivalents) the 4th - 17th given in name only (althought these are sometimes worked as demonstartions). It is well worth considering this degree.
Once you have been through the chair (Most Wise Sovereign - no less!) then you are generally eligable for the further degrees 19-30.

Hope this helps.
Phil Ivamy
PMWS NN Provincial Chapter

Please, anybody, I invite you to correct any inaccuracies in my posts!... I am carrying out research for my own personal enjoyment and welcome corrections

Yes Phil, a MOST interesting history! As I understand it, what is termed here in NZ as the Rite Rose Croix is the NZ manifestation of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite... is that right? The supreme masonic authority for the rite was established in 1786 by King Frederick II of Prussia (the emblem of whose royal house - the double headed eagle - is the emblem of the rite... as I understand it anyway!). This governing body is known as the Supreme Council (there are a number of them all over the world although I believe there may only be one per country, with exception of the United States). The Knight (or sometimes Prince or Sovereign Prince) of the Rose Croix is the 18th degree of the rite. I believe here in NZ that the degrees 4 - 18 are conferred in one ceremony.

I am interested in what appears to be a difference here in NZ unless I have misunderstood you Phil... my reading suggests that there are 33 degrees (including Grand Inspector General) rather than 30. Am in incorrect in my understanding that the Ancient and Accepted Rite Rose Croix is the same as the Scottish Rite? Even if they are essentially the same, can you tell me the significance of the different name? Why the change?

Haydn - originally, the number of members on the council were restricted to 9, a minimum of 5 of whom would have to profess the Christian religion... I believe that the council numbers have been extended - in the case of the Southern Jurisdiction I think they have 33 members.

I HIGHLY recommend reading Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike, former Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, Southern Jurisdiction in the US. A most erudite and moving work... one of those rare books that really speaks to you... it is a text that outlines each of the degrees in the Scottish (or Rose Croix in NZ) Rite (up to 32 as my understanding is that the 33rd is conferred on those appointed to the Supreme Council? i.e. rather than it being a degree that is 'worked'). You can order a facsimile copy of the book in two volumes from Amazon.com (useful for making notes through it)... but if you want a book in which you do NOT want to write - keep an eye out on eBay. Occasionally an 1871 first edition comes up, but that is reasonably rare and they generally fetch a decent price too! You can reasonably expect to pay around USD20 for copies from 1925 onwards.

You are correct in what you say as to the origins.
The Rose Croix ceremony consists of confering the degrees 4-17 in name only (the first 3 degrees being the three degrees of craft masonry) & working the 18th. In actual fact there are rituals for the 4-17th degrees & these are worked around the country as demonstartions & are very interesting.
Rose Croix is the same the common name for what is actually called "the Ancient & Accepted Rite of Rose Croix Freemasonary in NZ". Rose Croix isnt so much of a mouthful!
The higher degrees (19-30) are given after the candidate has performed his duties in the chair to a satisfactory level - currently I am an 18th degree & must await a decision as to the standard of my degree working during my term before being accepted as a 30th.
The degrees above that 31-33 are given on merit.
There are 9 members of the Supreme Council, all of whom are 33rd degree.
The was a common misconception that the 33rd degree "controls" the other masnoic orders & the world - go figure!
Hope this helps.

Regards
Phil

Thank you very much for that information Phil as there is plenty around about the Scottish Rite, but appears to be precious little out there with respect to Rose Croix freemasonry in NZ. Gary K has also pointed out another key difference in that here in NZ there is a requirement of Rose Croix masons to express a belief in the (Christian) Trinity, whereas when the original Supreme Council was established the rule was that 5 of the 9 members must profess the Christian religion (i.e. 4 could be of other religions). A most interesting greater emphasis placed on Christianity here in NZ in order to participate. Do you know why that is?... and why the change of name?

I think the requirement of belief in the Christian Trinity is a taste of what is in the texts of the Rose Croix. Let us suppose that you are opposed to the Trinity and you sign up for the Rose. Effectively you are going to have pieces of ceremony that are going to not fit with where you stand. There is then a possibility that someone could well take that offensivley. Resultingly if Trinitarian Christians are admitted to the degrees, that reduces the problem of any potential discord.

In Australia, the same requirement is made. I have made enquiries about joining the Rose, yet over here you have to serve 1 year as a Master Mason before you can be admitted to the Rose.

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Mostyn Goodwood & Loyalty no 18 SAC

what about the AMORC (rose croix) the non masonic organisation, seems to have the same messages as free masonry, have sent away for information and am looking forward to seeing their perspective on things, plus get some more enlightenment...

The book "Questions and Answers" published by the Masters and Past Masters Lodge No. 130 has the following to say about the Rosicrucians A.M.O.R.C.:

"The Grand Lodge of New Zealand has strong objections to it.

"When the Board of General Purposes issued its instructions in 1958 it had before it reports of enquiries made in Great Britain and America, and the action it then took was the same as that taken by the United Grand Lodge of England and the Grand Lodges in America and Australia.

"A.M.O.R.C., in spite of its advertised claims, is really a fairly recent society, formed by a Mr. Spencer Lewis and his family. Its form is imitative of Freemasonry to the degree that membership of it is incompatible with membership of the Craft.

"In addition, A.M.O.R.C. is affilliated to other Quasi-Masonic bodies whose actions are not approved by regular Freemasonry."

CR21 of the Book of Constitution states that it is a Masonic offence for a Brother to attend, support or associate with any organisation not recognised by Grand Lodge but which purports to mimic or copy the Masonic Ritual or Ceremonies.

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Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445

Correct me if I am wrong here, but the Rosicrutions and the Rose Croix are separate groups are they not, if this is the case, then this thread has gone somewhat sideways.......?

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Hadyn Nicholls PM
Homewood Lodge 447
Recruitment & Publicity Officer
http://www.homewood-lodge.net.nz
Wellington District Education Officer

The Masonic Rose Croix is totally different from and has no connection whatsoever with the Rosicrucians A.M.O.R.C.

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Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445

I am not a member of the Rose Croix. However as far as I can tell it is merely another name in common use for the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. Its first three Degrees are identical to the three Craft Degrees, the total number is 33. One joins by invitation and requires a Trinitarian Christian belief.

I can't emphasise enough that it is not to be confused with the Rosicrucians A.M.O.R.C. whm I have seen advertising in various papers and magazines although not recently.

If I have any of this information wrong, I hope someone will correct me

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Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445