Freemasons

Hello again...

Ok as I've said in another part of the forum, I'm hoping to join and have asked my friend propose me...

However I do have one concern. If I was to label myself, I would consider myself a Christian (albeit not a very good one) and I've come accross a number of references where about the 7th degree of the Royal Arch they actually name God? Referring to him as JBO.. which supposedly stands for Ja (or the Christian God), baal and osiris? (forgive my spelling please).

Is this correct? Do they name the "masonic god"? I pretty much discount a lot of the conspiracy rubbish I see but some of this comes from a lot of sources and not all of them nuts

Cheers,

PB.

You would need to join the Royal Arch after you joined regular Blue Lodge to find this out or look it up on the internet.

_________________
Hadyn Nicholls PM
Homewood Lodge 447
Recruitment & Publicity Officer
http://www.homewood-lodge.net.nz
Wellington District Education Officer

Well that's the problem.. if you join the Royal Arch it's too late.. if you use the Internet you can get fed a lot of BS.

Even more so why would you join the Arch (nothing personal to the Arch) , just stay with the blue if you have these concerns, but if you have that concern over the name baal and osiris, i know some Anti Sites try to tag it in abrevated form down to the name of the bad one the devil, but just remeber they are anti god or very much anti mason sites, i can tell you that there are ministers and monks and even cardanels in the world of freemasonry, so do not bother with the anti mason rubish, i did the same and read all of the web sites when i joined and just interpret everything they can in a bad way , some without even them being in the craft ever .
you will see they will tell you that there are 1000's of items from the pentagram in the streets of the white house to this and that on the dollar bill (US only) , but if you look they also will tell you that all the presidents are lizard men and UFO's are in your back yard.

as rule i say , if you feel that a group or lodge of men (and in some cases Woman) whom as a requirement needs to believe in a superior being ( that is there only to cover your god, Muslim, buda, god , jesus??? what ever it is) to belong, and has rules that you must be fair and just to all mankind, and that we must support all men in need and run on high morel rules is a bad and not a good thing then i think the Anti mason people have it all wrong, and unfortunitly the real barney people running there site are some religus groups whom are having membership issues them selves push there cause to stop anyone spending more time with somthing other than them, i feel you should look at all your reasions for joining and what the lodge offers and if it still feels right then do what you guts tells you , not what a nutter preach's with out any knowledge.

just my thoughts on it.

Best regards on what you decide

_________________
Neil McLeod

Northern Division Communication Officer
Auckland District West Communication Officer
Lodge Communication Officer
Web Master:
http://www.freemasons-northern.co.nz
http://www.freemasonswest.co.nz/
http://www.lodgekumeu279.co.nz

Thanks Neil... you've pretty much summed up my feeling on it. What convinced me to join were the anti-sites, due to the degree they had to clutch at straws or stretch credibility to make their theories fit. That and the things you mention... being honest upstanding members of society who help others.. without seeking recognition for it etc.

And I think I will stick with the Blue lodge.

It's just I believe (if I've read it correctly) the RA continues and finishes what masonry tries to teach (for want of a better word). It just doesn't sit well with me that it's not supposed to be a religion and is non denominational (again for want of a better word) but then not only names a specific god, but using names combining the Christian God with 2 pagan gods.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some staunch orthodox Christian and have many faults, but I'm just raising something that gives me pause. I thought here would be the best place to get the other side of the story. Also, there have been discussions on falling membership etc.. well if you require belief in a surpreme being, you can bet Christians will make up a good chunk of potental members. Having something as blatantly wrong as the above (IMHO) can only hurt recruitment. I'd like to see as little as possible change as the history is what sets freemasonry apart, but then removing the above (for example) would help ensure feemasonrys future.

"who's this upstart think he is telling us how to save the craft?!!" lol sorry, just thinking out loud

All you need to do is use a bit of common sense! You already know some Freemasons, what sort of people are they? Are they the sort of people the antimasonic sites would try to persuade you they are or are they ordinary decent people living a good life with likeminded friends?

Take a look at www.masonicinfo.com It's an American site run by a private individual who doesn't pull punches. It has a lot of truth there.

_________________
Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445

I have been in the craft for some years and the ceremonial is only one aspect of what we do which is where you come across names of people and things in the stories that it is made up of. Over all, I have found Freemasonry to be about a bit of fun and a good time to meet with friends as well as the ceremonial side.

_________________
Hadyn Nicholls PM
Homewood Lodge 447
Recruitment & Publicity Officer
http://www.homewood-lodge.net.nz
Wellington District Education Officer

Keith.. don't worry, as I've said previously, I don't believe what the anti-masonic sites say.. it was just my one concern mentioned (about the naming of the masonic god) which is true.

Then again, if you wanted to corrupt good people, wouldn't you start with an organisation that does good things?

Anyway, as stated I'll stick to the blue lodge and it should be all good.

Payback, there IS no 'masonic' god per se. THere is the Supreme Being revered with a particular name by your particular religion whatever that may be

_________________
Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445

EDIT.. I just notice the JBO thing is raised in another thread (don't you hate noobies who ask questions that have been asked before in other threads? Sorry I should have looked harder.

Anyway ignore the below if you wish... but reply if you wish, I'm interested to hear more.

Hi..

First off let me set the tone here.. I'm not trying to be confrontational, or "win" an argument, and I'm not anti Masonry (I still hope to join in fact). However if I join, as a Christian I want to know what I'm getting into. In fact I hope I am proven wrong. So anyway, I just wanted you to know I'm here to learn, not argue

Anyway, the reason I don't believe it's true that there is no masonic god.. at least not in the Royal Arch.... is because at the 7th degree they name him by the initials JBO... that is the lost name of God. If there was no masonic god, how could they name him? That is certainly not a name given to my God... well the first part Ja (or Ya) is, I believe Gods name in Hebrew.. but the other two names are pagan (baal and osiris). A Label such as The Grand Architect is all well and good, I comfortable enough with that as you could see my God as just that.. but he's not called JaBaalOsiris or whatever the other spelling is they use.

Of course, the problem with clarifying this is that 7th degree masons are not supposed to talk about it. As I said I believe this is fact and not disputed by RA Masons. If a RA Mason tells me it's rubbish, great, but I don't think they will. The real question I guess is why it's a problem for me, but not for them.

What's interesting is I don't go to church, and am certainly not a good Christian.. and the above might have you thinking I'm some ultra conservative or something. I'm not, it's just at the time of judgement I'll already be in enough trouble, so the last thing I want to do is start praying to baal.
Cheers,

PB.

Look mate, you've been reading too much bullshit by the enemy!

I'm a Royal Arch Mason. Now get this straight, no messing, THERE IS NO "MASONIC" GOD! Get it? I repeat, THERE IS NO "MASONIC " GOD!

Is that clear enough for you? Is there anything about that which you do not understand?

Certainly we have a Supreme Being which is a generic term intended to cover whatever name that Being is given by the various religions which revere Him, Her, It.

THere are Freemasons from all the world's major religions, they have the sacred writings of their particular religion open on the pedestal durnig the Lodge meetings, there are Lodges in Singapore, Hong Kong, and for all I know elsewhere in SE Asia which have up to 8 different versions of what we call the Volume of the Sacred Law for the Brethren of different religions in the particular Lodge. The discussion of religion is one of the two subjects we do not discuss in Lodge, the other is politics.

_________________
Keith Walker
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445

Keith - he is just being curious and coming from someone outside, they are questions that show the normal lack of knowledge of someone who is not in the Craft (Not having a go Payback).
Payback- It is simply because you need to to join to learn a lot of this information as for the most part it has little relevance to those outside the Craft. My recommendation is for you to sit down with a Lodge member and glean him for information, best way to learn is through questions. Depending on where you are, I can probably put you in touch with someone.

_________________
Hadyn Nicholls PM
Homewood Lodge 447
Recruitment & Publicity Officer
http://www.homewood-lodge.net.nz
Wellington District Education Officer

Yes.. I am just curious.. Keith as I tried to expain in reply to the PM, I'm not the enemy, and I'm not trying to spead BS. There is no need to be hostile or defensive.

However I think we'd have to agree to disagree. It's not that I've been reading to much BS from "the enemy" it's that I percieve something differently to you. I just have a problem with naming god. If you say that the name JBO is or such is never used, then that's all good.

Hadyn, no offense taken as you're quite right, there are a number of things about masonry I'm ignorant about, which is why I'm asking here. If I'm upsetting people I'm sorry, that was never my intent.